Talk: Episode 222: Born to Run

Scenes to Come[]

So I was reviewing the WonderCon trailer they released a while back and there are two scenes that have not aired yet. They are at timecode 2:46 (Sarah and Weaver) and 3:46 (John and Cameron). View the WonderCon trailer — Jeiara^Talk 21:58, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

Answers[]

I'm trying to occupy myself until the finale... Anyway, I'm digging around for hints, and this is what Josh Friedman said in his February 23, 2009 blog:

So here are my campaign promises. And because I've already shot the episodes, I know they're promises I'll be keeping... by the end of the season you will see/know:

the resolution of the Riley story Y
the resolution of the Jesse story Y
a future story about Jesse's Terminator–piloted nuclear submarine explaining how Jesse got to be how she got to be and how it relates to John Connor's present and future Y
the return of Cameron's glitch in new and deadly ways ?
much more Jameron (for those of you who like it) Y
not too much Jameron (for those of you who don't) Y
an explanation of the three-dots N
Catherine Weaver's backstory/origin story N
Savannah in mortal danger Y
the revelation of Catherine Weaver's exact mission N
a fight between Catherine Weaver and another Terminator N
a faceoff between Sarah Connor and Catherine Weaver N
a deadly attack on the Connors by agents of Skynet Y (beach scene Weaver's Home)
the death of a loved one Y Riley
the death of a loved one Y Charley
the death of a loved one Y Derek

So everything with an N will be answered in this episode.

— Jeiara^Talk 18:31, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

the return of Cameron's glitch in new and deadly ways - For this I believe they mean her loss of control over her arm. But it could be something else.
Catherine Weaver's backstory/origin story - I think this was meant to be in the story of the Jimmy Carter.
a deadly attack on the Connors by agents of Skynet - The attack at Weaver's home.
the death of a loved one - Riley, Charley, Derek. - Nx1701g 04:44, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Thanks! We'll find out the rest soon... — Jeiara^Talk 18:08, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

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Return of Cameron's glitch: maybe it caused her to save John Henry instead of killing him
Fight between Terminators -- happened, albeit short and quite one-sided. They really could have made a better fight episode out of that one.
Three dots: Explained - belong to the Turk casing, although still unclear how they were related to the original blood symbols in the basement
Catherine Weaver's backstory/origin: Only partially explained. Doesn't say how she was actually "born" or created, and why she decided to fight skynet
Weaver's mission: Explained pretty clearly
Faceoff between Weaver and Sarah - yes

Shadowlord2 02:38, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

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Wow[]

That was a pretty awesome ending! I wasn't surprised to see Derek... but wow, Kyle's still around. Maybe that's because he never went back in time to save John? (There wouldn't have been a General John Connor to tell Kyle to go back in time.) Oh and I loved how they had Allison play with the dog, to prove that she wasn't Cameron.

How did John Henry chronoport to the future with all of his hardware? --Kanamekun 02:48, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

If you'll notice, his cord and its accompanying hardware were left behind. I'm assuming he wouldn't quite be John Henry anymore, since disconnecting from his hard drives and such would basically make him just a jump drive. haha. The situation definitely explains how Skynet came to progress more quickly in Terminator development. It does, however, create yet another predestination paradox about which we will see endless arguments. -Sec_1971 22:01, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, excellent ending. I'm so happy that following the abysmal quality of the midseason the show picked up in the last few episodes and delivered a truly brilliant ending. It's almost as if the ending episodes (as well as the beginning ones). That being said, I also really hope it's not THE series ending and there will be a Season 3. On the note of John Henry's hardware, he must be using Cameron's chip, either leaving it intact (and thus obtaining Cameron's personality while losing his own), or, much more likely, erasing Cameron's personality from the chip and uploading his own before putting the chip in his brain. That could be Cameron's sacrifice for which she was sorry to John. Shadowlord2 02:57, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Cameron was uploaded into The Turk's hardware from what it appeared to be and John Henry was downloaded into Cameron's chip. If you looked the screens kept repeating "I'm Sorry John." which would require some sort of operating code to display. John Henry also required the fiber optic cord in Cromartie's redundant memory port to function. We saw that the cord had been removed. John Henry was most likely in her chip and Cameron in The Turk. -Nx1701g 03:00, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Probably should also remember we are not certain of the year, at least I didn't see any hints towards what year it was. With that aside, this was a great episode and while I wasn't counting on a season 3, I really hope we get one now (something I promised myself I wasn't going to do!).--Terran Officer 03:02, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

It could be assumed that we are in the same period as the previous trips to the future on the series. We are either in 2026 or 2027.-Nx1701g 03:07, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

It isn't clear if this is Cameron (reprogrammed metal), Cameron (pretending to be Allison) or the real Allison. If she is reprogrammed Cameron, then the dogs could have been trained to recognize her as an ally and not an enemy. If she is Cameron pretending to be Allison, it has been established that she is a unique terminator and so dogs may not be able to sense that? Or she's really Allison. Fun to speculate... and hopefully there is a Season3 Hojin 10:30, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Ok, it can not be Cameron at all (or at least very unlikely). Cameron was created after John Connor and Allison become friends/lovers. Since in this timeline, John Connor just arrived... Well, at least there will be Jallison instead of Jameron angst. Will be interesting to see if JC falls in love with Allison since their personalities will be quite different. Hojin 11:12, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Then...what about Catherine?[]

Now that we know that her ulterior motive was the destruction of Skynet, whose side is she on? We know that the inprisoned T-1000 said no to joining John's alliance, yet, not only did Weaver protect the Conners from gettin' killed in that ambush, but she also says that Skynet is her enemy too and what she's been doin' this whole time was makin' somethin' to combat it, sooo......eh? Kaihedgie 03:27, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Catherine Weaver was the T-1000 from the Jimmy Carter. The producers said we would learn her backstory and her comments about the answer (the message Ellison gave to Cameron) support this idea. Weaver appears to be a part of the other machine faction that was believed to be one of Cameron's lies in "Allison from Palmdale". They are attempting to stop Skynet and are no longer serving its interests. -Nx1701g 04:38, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

You think Cameron was really part of the anti-Skynet machine faction? It wouldn't make much sense for her to terminate Allison Young, at the very least because that wouldn't help her gain human trust, if that was her real intention. What if she originally was part of Skynet and lied about trying to make peace in order to get close to John Connor and terminate him. Shadowlord2

As I put in my statement "believed to be one of Cameron's lies." I didn't mean to imply that it wasn't true, but Catherine Weaver does seem to be pursuing her own interests. In addition, as we saw in "Today Is The Day, Part 1" there does seem to be another faction. The terminators guarding the T-1000's box, for example, were holding their weapons on the Resistance team. Its also possible that Weaver is working on her own. It was theorized in the novel for Terminator 2 that the T-1000 could learn to think for itself and rebel against Skynet they could have explored this possibility. The truth is though we really don't know. -Nx1701g 05:25, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Looks like they're gonna explore it. I mean, Weaver could have just let the Connors die when the Hunter ambushed them and when Weaver follows John through the time jump. She coulda ended it right then and there, but she didn't. I dunno, but the T-1000s rebelling against Skynet sounds interestin'. Kaihedgie 06:13, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Weaver is definitely being honest about fighting Skynet. Should be interesting to see if this is merely a "Enemy of my enemy" is my friend or if her interests are truly aligned with the Human Resistance. Hojin 10:35, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Brian Austin Green says, It's not completely clear yet but what we’re sort of getting, as far as Weaver goes, is that Weaver could end up being somebody who was sent back by John Connor in the future and John Henry was created as an alternate to Skynet. Something [to use] within this present where Skynet is sending Terminators back to kill him. Something that on a tech level could really help him evolve and learn in a different way than Skynet did. It could be [something John set into place], we'll find out if we come back and hopefully we'll find out. Source — Jeiara^Talk 18:13, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

2020 was not the date[]

No where in the episode did it say they jumped to 2020. If you look in the background the only thing that says 20 is the countdown clock. -Nx1701g 19:52, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Q&A[]

We may want to edit the Q&A section because there is some overlap of questions (including ones answered being asked again). -Nx1701g 20:01, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

I have revised the questions section to eliminate overlap and combined several answers. -Nx1701g 03:29, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

So much of the Q&A needs revision. Many sentences either don't make sense or don't present an argument. I will try get stuck into them over the weekend, but we all should put our heads down and get to it. Skraper

The most unbelievable event in the series[]

Sarah Connor choosing to stay behind.

I mean COME ON. This is Sarah Connor. Protecting her only son and the salvation of humanity. One she never leaves out of sight even for the most mundane things. One she trusts nobody with, not even a terminator who's saved his life repeatedly (as opposed to Weaver, which only did it once and which could have, in Sarah's eyes, just set it all up to gain their trust). And what happens now? She lets him TIME TRAVEL into an unknown but certainly dangerous future, with an unknown but equally dangerous machine? Without putting any kind of fight? Without trying to forbid John to go or following him? Sure there's the logic that her son "has" to follow to save humanity because he needs to follow John Henry, but Sarah in the past repeatedly refused any compromise to her son's safety, even if it was required for the mission. As well, in earlier episodes it was repeatedly inferred that Sarah's purpose in life is her son, and now she leaves him into the unknown? What would she do without him on her own, furthermore knowing she is "destined" to get cancer? What was she thinking? How could she POSSIBLY stay behind on her own?.. What a weak chain in an otherwise superb episode.Shadowlord2 08:08, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

I think it was the I love you moment from John that changed everything for Sarah. For the entire season we saw the evolution of John breaking away from his Mom and deciding things on his own, whether she liked it or not. From ease dropping on his Dr. Sherman sessions and John being angry at her about Cameron, You don't know anything!... etc. Sarah realizes being the over-protecting mother might not be helping John. Compared to Season 1, where he told his Mom he wasn't some kind of Messiah, Season 2 he accepts his fate and Sarah too slowly comes to accept that he'll have to be on his own one day. The ghostly I love you too at the end sort of symbolized that she didn't abandon him, but that she finally let go. — Jeiara^Talk 11:03, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Agreed, whilst this is The Sarah Connor Chronicles he is the central character to the story. This is Sarah's way of cutting the cord. Allowing him to mature beyond their little "posse" of 07/08. To lead you need to be able to step out on your own without any self doubts. That is what Sarah is making him do by staying behind. It is likely that she feels she can can have a greater impact changing the events she has knowledge of than nobody in "present" time having the info she does. Plus she probably would not be prepared to deal with Kyle in the future and/or knows the status of her cancer. Skraper

I think that John Connor should have reminded himself to return to the past after the bubble activated, that way, he could exist in two places at one. I mean, in paradox, by returning into the past, he'd be sure to meet up with his other self in the future, thus ensuring that the normal time continuum can continue. Logical, eh.--Unic of the borg 02:40, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Continuity[]

How did John Henry get Camerons chip inside his head? She would have had to be turned off for him to reprogram it and for it to be inserted and so she couldnt have done it and he would have had to remove the cable from the back of his head to insert it. The only explanation I can think of is the cable doesnt connect to the same connections as the chip which meant the engineers would have had to drill a new hole in his skull and build a new interface for it to the rest of his systems. Any sane engineer would have simply fitted a adaptor to the socket where his CPU would have been. Watcherzero 22:05, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

If you watch closely when they show the back of John Henry's head the cord was attached at the back of the head and not in the front where the chip is located. JH had fine motor control over Cromartie's body and it would be simple for him to place the chip in the open CPU ports on Cromartie's skull assembly and interface with them (if you assume that the chips use plug and play technology). We don't know that Cameron was deleted from the file or she may have been uploaded from John Henry's body into the Turk (if she did upload) while JH downloaded. -Nx1701g 16:55, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

Cameron's Eyes[]

I believed, that Cameron's eyes were already red at the start of season 2, albeit once, when it was exposed, without any organic eye covering, after john connor removed her chip when she was trapped between two trucks, and reinserted it again. Her right eye was exposed, and it glowed red. --Tonicquill 03:38, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Cameron's eyes have never been damaged previously in the series. This is the first time she has had major damage that allowed us to see the mechanics beneath the skin sheath over the eye sensor assembly. Her eyes did not flash when she was rebooted in the junk yard, they did not flash when she was powered down between the trucks, nor did she have any eye damage in "Samson & Delilah".-Nx1701g 05:22, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

TDE Location Placement[]

Forgive me, but I suck at making random titles, but to my point. One of the questions in Q&E asks about the location of the TDE when one travels through time. The answer gives an example in the pilot episode, which I feel I must dispute. John, Sarah and Cameron leave inside of a Bank Vault (which, while destroyed...) and arrive in the middle of a busy street (if not a highway. Granted, a lot can change in eight years, but I remember that Bank being surrounded by other buildings. There was seemingly nothing in the general area of the street they arrived at (again, a lot can happen in eight years, but that sort of change in LA is unlikely). This is of course, assuming that I am not remembering the correct example, or a different episode title was intended?--Terran Officer 05:04, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

The producers said in a podcast during season one that they were meant to have arrived in the same location as where they left. -Nx1701g 05:23, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

They arrived in the middle of a Highway, its perfectly plausible that a great swathe of buildings may be demolished to make way for one, the bank may also have been demolished after the incident due to damage and/or lack of trust in the bank. Watcherzero 11:38, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Scotland reference[]

Uh guys, I know you got the "Weaver is a dual-citizen of Scotland," from the dialogue from the show, but it's blatantly wrong. There's no such thing as being a citizen of Scotland. Scotland is a constituent country of the United Kingdom, and therefore one can only be British, legally speaking. We can put the cop's slip down to just not being aware of the difference, but I really think the Wiki should be edited to reflect that. I've made the change myself, so unless anyone has a problem with it ... Kaenei 17:20, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Correct, theirs Scottish nationality but not Scottish citizenship, She would be an EU, UK and possibly US citizen in fact we dont know if she even has US citizenship? Watcherzero 19:13, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Weaver's polyalloy "eel"[]

From the notes:
The eel from "Adam Raised a Cain" is revealed to be made of mimetic polyalloy, and merges into Catherine Weaver. Hm, can't remember right now an "eel" from "Adam Raised a Cain" - isn't "Today Is The Day, Part 2" meant? At least there it was quite clear what the "eel" was. And in "Born to Run" itself: Was that "eel" parts of Weaver which were bombed away by the drone's crash? -Wikicide 18:48, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

The Detective was tapping the glass of the aquarium in "Adam Raised a Cain" and Weaver told him to not touch the glass. You could see the eel inside in those scenes (she explained that they normally hid or something to that effect). -Nx1701g 16:57, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

Ah, THAT eel *blockheaded*. But what sense does it make, that Weaver puts a part of herself as an eel in a aquarium?! Maybe I have to rewatch the episodes... -Wikicide 22:54, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Contingency plan. Should she somehow be destroyed, Catherine kept a part of herself hidden as an eel so that she could survive in some form. Kinda like a Horcrux or a Dead Man's Chest. Darth Raivon 23:15, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Why was Cromartie able to travel through[]

Q: Why was Cromartie able to travel through time then if he wasn't fully surrounded by flesh in "Pilot" yet Cameron wasn't?

Was he able to travel through time? I thought only his head made it to the future. His body rot on a dump and thus lost all skin. He came alive in the future where his head had landed.

The difference is that Cromartie's chip was still active when his head travelled through (which was still partially covered in flesh at the time). When the chip is active, it creates a living field that allows the machine to time travel. Cameron was deactivated at the time, so she couldn't travel. Darth Raivon 22:27, September 29, 2009 (UTC)

I think Josh Friedman had an interview about this... he implied that Fox wouldn't let him show nearly as much flesh on the head as he wanted. Ah here it is:

"Please be assured that I am VERY familiar with the rules of time travel as explained by Kyle Reese in the first movie. When Cromartie's head goes through the time bubble, THERE IS FLESH ON IT. If you can't see it, that's because a) it's burning off very quickly and b) certain people don't like it when we show burning flesh, cyborg or not."

I haven't heard the "chip active" theory before... but if that were true, wouldn't metal terminators without living tissue (besides mimetic alloy guys) be able to travel at will to the past, as long as their chips were active? --Kanamekun 00:40, September 30, 2009 (UTC)

No, because the technology and the flesh have to work in unison to generate a viable field. Darth Raivon 00:20, October 1, 2009 (UTC)

It's a neat theory - I like it! Are there any quotes to support it? --Kanamekun 00:24, October 1, 2009 (UTC)

There are a dozen quotes scattered across the internet. It's mostly derived from the T-1000 theory wherein it uses a synthetic living field to allow it to time travel. Not to mention it makes the most sense. Consider what we've seen in the franchise regarding time travel, it's all anyone can go with to make it work. Darth Raivon 20:06, October 1, 2009 (UTC)

I meant quotes from the movies, tv or comics. :-) Given that Josh said that the flesh was still on the skull, I'm going to go on his word that the "field generated by a living organism" was just Cromartie's flesh.

Here's a potential alternate explanation for the T-1000 time travel: maybe the mimetic polyalloy can actually emulate living tissue on a cellular level? If that was the case, then the field generated by a living organism could actually be a real field! In any case, it's pure speculation - the franchise never really explained how the T-1000s could travel through time, as far as i know. --Kanamekun 09:51, October 2, 2009 (UTC)

I recall reading the Chip theory on the Sarah Connor Society forums. It was posted by The_turk which was Zack Stentz handle. - Nx1701g 04:27, October 3, 2009 (UTC)

John's reasoning to travel into the future[]

Did John Connor go to the future just to get Cameron's chip back. WHY would he do that I don't get it? I feel like within the first hour of being there he'll ask himself: "wtf am I doing here". It feels like he didn't realize that it might've been a 1-way trip and that he wouldn't be the resistance leader in that timeline anymore, therefore people could've been exterminated on a larger scale. Which means that this future is more about machines vs machines-separatists like Weaver, while humans are just trying to survive by not getting in the way. Gendalv (talk) 01:50, May 3, 2016 (UTC)