Talk: Episode 205: Goodbye to All That

HUD[]

What model could the terminator john is distracting be? It's HUD is multicoloured like Cameron but the frame is still red... --Tonicquill 11:42, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

I would assume it is still a T-888. Apparently the designers are making a few alterations to the Terminator HUDs this season. Darth Raivon 12:46, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

The episode preview clearly has them stating it is another Series 888.Fulongamer 14:58, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Slang / Gaming[]

What the Hell does "pwning noobs" mean? Unless Marty Bedell actually used this phrase, it should be translated and replaced. sec_1971 12:40, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

It's leet-speak, computer game slang. "Pwning" means kicking ass and/or thrashing. A "noob" is someone who lacks experience and skill in playing a particular game. A classic example of a "noob": the noob throws a grenade at an experienced player, but misses, and the grenade bounces off the wall and blows up in his face. Darth Raivon 16:40, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Sounds like something I'd do :) I hate playing online games. Those kids are cheating or something. They don't get into the spirit of the games, they just wanna rack up kills as quickly as possible, as if it's going to get to get them something worthwhile in return :)

sec_1971 00:45, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Hm, do you say "AFK" (away from keyboard) when playing on a video game console? And which game is Marty playing? -Wikicide 23:15, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Ogre[]

The dialog clearly details that when they are talking about the "Ogre" they are also talking about a "Tank". IE: an HK-Tank, as it has to be mobile in order to escort the "monkey wagons" used to transport the prisoners.Fulongamer 06:38, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Report User=Sluace for sabotage in this page. He has inserted bogus scripting into the page to prevent editing of his false assumption. The "Ogre" is referred to multiple times in the dialog of the episode as also being a "tank". Why he is assuming that is a piece of "new tech" is beyond me, when it is phenomenally clear they were saving the budget by explicitly NOT showing this or any other unit in question. There are also references that the situation they were in would require Kyle Reese in Another Firing Position shooting AT the Hammerhead Bunker. Hence a "building with a gatling gun" firing at them.

If the building with the large gatling gun, is just another Resistance firing position, why does it turn? It has lights and holds a large gatling gun. What city are you from in which buildings turn several degrees while firing large gatling guns? If it was a another Resistance firing position it would most certainly be at ground level. Ohh...and the writer of the episode confirmed it was a new piece of tech. So yeah...feel free to report me for trying to add some accuracy to the wiki. Instead of 3 or 4 notions because you can't figure that it's not a normal H/K tank. Sluace 01:19, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

By the way, How did I "sabotage" page? Bogus scripting? Please clarify as to what you are accusing me of?Sluace 01:27, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

If this was the fault of the new editing protocol, my apologies. However what happened was, I was attempting to undo your edit to reach the (current) neutral-ish type of statement we can at least agree is as factual as we can make it so far, and recieved the "edit conflict" message, showing both sets of text, mine and yours. Yours included "Span" statements in <> surrounding your last note and caused the attempt to save the changes to reject with a "unable to edit statement". The next time I tried to enter the edit page it failed completely and went Error 404. last time we saw that type of result was when another user posting hideous porn-slanders about Cameron tried to lock up the page and prevent editing. After calling for report on you, I re-entered my preferences to do away with the cursed RTF editor, and things cleared up.Fulongamer 01:57, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Ahh...ok glad that was cleared up!Sluace 04:29, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

(the quotes in question):

Kyle: Prisoners now. One ogre tank, three monkey wagons. The convoy will roll out down Wilshire to Century in the next hour. And i'm thinking--

Derek: We've seeded the street with these things. We got to make sure that ogre cooperates.

Bedell: Corporal Reese will take you and set up over at Lacma and the Page. When the convoy rolls to your position, open fire on this bunker. The ogre will think it's metal on skin and move to assist. And when it does, boom. Questions? Move out.

Fulongamer 19:46, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Edit capability restored after disabling the RTF edit option in preferences. Back to the point. Until we can get a clear and unambiguous screencap of the scene in question that Sluace is adamant is an image of the Ogre, the Note text as it stands is as accurate as we can make it.Fulongamer 20:04, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Nx1701g, just did a search on TerminatorFiles and can't find the reference you are talking about. Do you have a direct link to the blog/forum/post and verification (since that is an unofficial site) that the person is on the production team?Fulongamer 22:51, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

The user on TerminatorFiles is identified as The Turk. He mentioned the Ogre as being new during the commentary thread for The Mousetrap.Nx1701g 22:53, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Here is the link: <url>http://www.terminatorfiles.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2067</url> Nx1701g 22:56, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Interesting. If he's a valid source. However I still contend that the Ogre has not in fact been seen as yet, since with the detail they put into these things (IE: the HK-VTOL) we would get a much better view than the glimpses alluded to in 205. Seriously, if it looked like a building, it probably was a building. We'd flat out know "the Ogre" when we saw it, hands down. End result is still that it's the SCC variant/upgrade to the classic HK-Tank, just like they upgraded the endo, just like the upgraded the HK-Aerial.Fulongamer 00:08, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

I'm surprised you haven't heard of "The Turk"...I guess I just assumed everybody knew him. Or at least visited TerminatorFiles. It's the best Terminator site out there and has been for years. I admit it's a little clunky, it took me a year before I noticed they had any type of forums. Even still Fulongamer, how can you think the Ogre is a building. It freakin' turns! LOL And has a gatling gun on it's side, attached like an arm.Sluace 01:23, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

How does anybody know that this "building with a gatling gun" was even the Ogre in the first place? Did they show the object, then have someone shout "Look, it's an Ogre!!!!" I think the "Ogre" is just an HK-Tank. If you look at the HK-tank silhouette, it resembles a large, anthropomorphic giant...an Ogre. sec_1971 01:34, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Again, images, images, images. Post some. Initial descriptions given kept calling it a building with a gun. I admit I haven't yet even seen it. And I was (as usual) sitting taking notes all throughout the episode. if I somehow missed it, fine. But let's help out everyone. We need images (if there are any good ones yet) of this "Ogre" version of a tank (and yes, it most explicitly is also a type of tank), better pics of the Bidell Terminator, Shots of the Bar Skank/T-1001, and more. I can get all the screencaps I need once the DVDs come out for S2, but for now we have to rely on the dribblings from the official site and any of the T-wiki-nation that happens to be operating from digital episode downloads. Raivon, I believe that's your cue. I really don't trust the content of the TerminatorFiles site because of the reeeeeeealy inane quality of some of the questions and speculation going on there.Fulongamer 01:35, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

I think we're on the same page on this one. I watched the episode again and didn't see it, either. The episodes on FOX.com are in HD and I have a kick-ass computer, so it couldn't be an image quality issue. It just wasn't there. I watched all of the flashback scenes over and over. No outside shots at all, other than what can be seen out the windows. No Ogre. Sorry. Somebody is seeing things. sec_1971 02:44, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Seriously...the very first flashback. I know it's in the background, but you can't see the giant freakin' building with the gatling gun on it. It turns!!! LOL How big is your computer screen, because it is in the background of the shot as the Aerial H/K flies over. I'll admit it's a blink and you'll miss it moment. But if your actually looking for it, it's not that hard to find. I'll see if I can get you a screenshot. Not sure how I'm going to do that. Actually you know what... I'm not going to bother. Even if I produce one, there is no chance that you are going to change that neutral page you've got. I could change it, but you'd only change it back. And I don't have time for this childish game anymore. You could just try to believe me...so far I'm 1-0 against you and Fulongamer. I was right about the 1983 bit in T:SCC after all. But that's not how it works with people on the internet. So I guess I'm off to do other things. Continue to enjoy the show! =) It's been fun Sluace 04:29, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Here's the Ogre[]

What ever it is, it does look different than a regular HK-Tank. This is the best screenshot I could get.

sec_1971 15:15, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

I just got this on Fox.Com

Nx1701g 15:02, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Looks like they're about the same quality. Could be new technology, but I've seen it somewhere before. Don't know where, though.--sec_1971 15:15, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

You haven't...it's a completely new design. Made up by the minds that do the CGI for T:SCC. This is what "The Turk" said about it. "Classic Skynet tanks were alluded to but not seen in "Dungeons and Dragons." But for the future thread in "Goodbye to All That," we wanted something even bigger, meaner, and more intimidating. Hence the Ogre." You can find his quote here: http://www.terminatorfiles.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=28472#28472

Sluace 16:18, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Actually, I have seen this before, thank you very much. It looks exactly like the tank used by the Cylons in the Batllestar Galactica Sci-Fi channel remake. Try not to tell people what they've seen and haven't seen. It doesn't get any more rude than that.

sec_1971 21:01, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

You have to admit that you've been rude as well. Also, I did some checking, there has not been a tank used on the new Battlestar Galactica series (unless you count the Resurrection tank but that's a tub of goo). Nx1701g 22:21, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Watch the DVDs. You'll see it. On second thought, don't watch them. Do something constructive. Find some detailed specs on the Ogre, so we can all end this argument and document the freaking thing on the Wiki. All we know so far is that it's a kind of Tank (Kyle said so), it's fairly large (probably about the same size as a standard HK-Tank, maybe larger), it has two gatling-style guns; one on either side, and appears to have some kind of sensor near the top of its "head". Other than that, for all we know, what we saw out the window could just be a turret on something much larger. Come to think of it, it didn't seem to be moving, just rotating.

BTW, speaking assertively and factually is not being rude. So far, no matter how they might seem to you, everyone's statements have been polite and mature, except for the whole 'telling me what I've seen before' comment. Think about how it would sound to you if someone said the same thing about an observation you made. You would probably think, "How would this person know what I've seen before?" Rude. Very rude. Don't be rude. Don't be childish. Just play nice with everyone and work together. If someone disagrees with what you say, don't get all offended and start making things up. Discuss it on these talk pages. That's what they're for. sec_1971 01:11, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

On Terminator Files The_Turk has confirmed that this is the Ogre. It was deliberately made fuzzy and is an original creation of the series. Nx1701g 18:20, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Why does everyone who goes to that site say "so and so has confirmed..." Who exactly has the authority there to confirm anything? If I said I was a writer for TSCC, would you believe me, too? Maybe I'll say "Yeah, that's the Ogre, but we made it fuzzy so it would be cute and cuddly looking. Good way to fool the resistance." If you want the real writers, go to Fox.com and ask around the official TSCC site. THERE's where the writers are, not some fan site.sec_1971 20:39, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

You poor, poor thing. What in your life made you so suspicious of everyone? Alright I'll take it slow. Check out http://fox.com/blogs/terminator/2008/10/07/podcasting-all-that/ under that URL you will see the name of Zack Stentz, "That's The Turk to you". Obviously his handle name. Perhaps we should visit this site as well: http://terminatorwiki.fox.com/page/Producer%27s+Blog when you get there scroll down to the February 25 post where the series creator, Josh Friedman, talks about Zack, as well his alter-ego "The Turk." And having to chase him around the various fan sites so he didn't reveal many spoilers. So yes the writers visit fan sites not just the official TSCC site. Zack is obviously the writer of this episode as well as a Terminator fan who loves to share tidbits about the episodes he has written. Sorry buddy but you've lost again! Just admit, It's an Ogre! I'm sorry that you couldn't see it despite your multiple viewings but it has been more than confirmed.Sluace 21:44, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

I did see it last night. I'm the one who posted the picture of it above. It's an Ogre. I wasn't arguing that. I was arguing with the other guy about terminator_files.com...Fulongamer was the one you're arguing with. I got in there to say we shouldn't change the page until the show itself says that it's an Ogre. Anything that anyone says, even a writer (who you don't really know is even that person anyway), is just conjecture until it actually appears in the show. We would like to be a credible resource, not a rumor or "he said so" site. So, calm down. I was on your side the whole time. It took actually capturing the episode with my capture card and slowing the video down to actually see it. It was, as you say, a "blink and you'll miss it" scene. It was cool looking, but it's a total rip-off of the Cylon Tank. That's where I've seen it. The producers keep saying they want "their own" enemies, but everything so far is just a re-hashing of stuff that already existed. Cameron is different I guess, but that's about it. I see no difference between Catherine Weaver and the T-1000 other than the sex. Not much difference between the T-888 and Arnie either. I'm thinking the writers got the wrong impression about Model/Series numbers. Who cares. We're all in this together. We should be working on verifying everything we run across before posting it. This wiki is coming along nicely and, with the exception of a few articles (Fazer, for example-why is that still here?), it's pretty well researched and verified. Agreed?sec_1971 22:26, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

The producers have mentioned that they visit TerminatorFiles and that they post there in podcasts. Nx1701g 22:21, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Ok. Then where did they mention this? Verify that statement you just made. Which producers?sec_1971 22:28, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Friedman mentioned the site in a podcast from earlier in the season. I am thinking Automatic for the People but I'd have to review them again (that was actually how I found out about TerminatorFiles and began posting there). Nx1701g 22:36, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Here is an entry in the Producer's blog that includes direct references to "The Turk" posting on online sites: http://terminatorwiki.fox.com/page/Producer%27s+Blog?t=anon

"The writers of the episode, Ashley Miller and Zack Stentz, are without a doubt the most hardcore Terminator geeks on our entire staff. During the strike one of my daily rituals was chasing Zack around the various internet chatrooms to make sure his alter ego “The Turk” didn’t reveal too many clues about the show."Nx1701g 22:44, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Great. Wonderful. We have concluded that a writer posts to TerminatorFiles. Someone else please ask him how they're going top write themselves out of the "When did Kyle go back and When was John born" hole. The end state is, in the Producer's blogs, and The Podcast for the episode, they have yet to make note of the Ogre. They also have yet to offer up a good piece of visuals on it. Perhaps a later Future War episode will be so kind, and we'll get a better treatment like they gave the HK-VTOL on the S1 DVDs. End state is that the "Ogre" is another variant of the HK-Tank. Now, if that proves to be such a significant departure that it warrants a page of its own rather than an expansion of the HK-Tank page, we'll deal with that when it happens. Remember also that the original HK-Tank was a few stories tall in the first place. From that fragment of a screencap, with NOTHING to scale off of, you have nothing to base the height off of. We need better "behind the scenes" or "in-episode" materials to work from. Fulongamer 22:59, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

I think that sums it up. No reason to change anything until there is verification on the show. We can't go by blogs. Until this piece of machinery appears full form in an episode, there is no need to create anything new. The writers may change their minds before this happens. Fulongamer has explained it now, too. How many people have to explain this dilemma before you guys get it? If there is no separate page for the T-1001 (which is a variant of the Series 1000) why should there be a separate page for the Ogre.

1.It's just an HK-Tank, slightly different from the original. That's all.

2.Blogs are not reason to completely change an article or write a new one.

3.There is nothing in the blog that says anything about the subject anyway.

4. For all we know, the Ogre is only ten feet tall. There is, as mentioned above, nothing around to scale its height to.

sec_1971 23:48, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Ahhh...I give up. Whatever happened to common sense? If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck...

Sluace 00:27, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

You're not listening. There is an Ogre, we all agree. We just can't write anything different in the articles until we have more info. We want to be sure any info is accurate and not just speculation (unless you write a purely speculative article that clearly states that it's speculative). You can say that it looked like a building with a gatling gun on it. But, someone else might not agree. For example, it looked like a fire hydrant to me. And the guns were on either side, not the front. We don't know what it is, other than the fact that it's some kind of "TANK" as Kyle called it. Be patient, Grasshopper. Maybe the next episode will reveal more. Than we can update as needed.

sec_1971 01:06, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Terminator Files[]

Please use references for "The Turk's" podcasts for future edits (i.e. the exact URL). Stating that "Writers have confirmed..." isn't acceptable. We need his or her actual statements to be credible according to Wiki standards. The format that was given above in the "Here's the Ogre" section is acceptable as it takes the reader right to the quote. Ta ta.

sec_1971 21:07, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Screenshots[]

I use my video card to capture episodes from FOX.com, so I can get screenshots of anything from any episode. If anyone has a request for a season 2 screenshot, let me know and I'll upload it and get back to you. sec_1971 00:32, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

The Bedell Terminator[]

You'd think Skynet would figure out that sending a single Terminator back in time to kill someone doesn't work. If a T-800 couldn't manage to kill a 19 year old girl and a half-starved resistance fighter, then chances are that strategy should be re-evaluated. Even a T-1000 failed its mission. I thought the "I" in A.I. stood for Intelligence :) I guess this answers the question someone proposed before (when discussing what type of terminator Carter was): "Why would Skynet send back an inferior model when more advanced models were available?" Answer: Apparently, Skynet isn't very bright. Not the super-intelligent, strategic genius it's cracked up to be.

sec_1971 22:45, 15 October 2008 (UTC)